Los Angeles Organization of Ultimate Teams


I wanted to create a section where you could say what’s on your mind. Like if you’re just bummed you didn’t make it into Co-ed, or you have any questions like “Why are there two leagues anyway? Why can’t there just be one?”

So comment below if you have comments to make. I promise it will not fall on deaf ears. I will try to answer all questions I can. If you know me, I always try to take the entirety of the league’s concerns into account when making any decision. But I am prone to making mistakes, so if you think I’m doing something wrong, let me know.


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  1. I love the idea of an all draft league, but I hate the idea of it replacing winter or summer

    As mentioned before, summer league is about fun and being beginner friendly

    I also love the idea of “round up your possy” and see how you and your friends fair against them and their friends. Sure it’s clique-y but at the same time, there’s nothing wrong with people wanting to play with who they choose for once

    let’s hear it for a short all draft league between winter and summer league!

  2. Couple things to add here:

    1) Going back to posts #s 37 and 41: I’m captaining LA’s Club Open B-Team (Gridlock) this year and will be leaving practices open for everyone until the roster’s finalized in mid-to-late-August. While Gridlock will strive to be as competitive as can be (and while I personally am driven by a goal to get back to Nationals), it would be a disservice to developmental talent to ostracize them because they’re not far enough along as-of-yet. Balancing these two will be a tough task this season, but I really do believe in Ultimate and the Spirit of the Game, and this challenge won’t get in the way of helping to give back to something that gave me so much.

    2) I too like the idea of a league that’s completely drafted or picked at random a la St. Pat’s Hat, but I have no idea where it’d fit in the yearly schedule; between Summer and Beach is the Club Series, and between Winter and Summer is Women’s/the College Series. Maybe have Beach and this other league at the same time, with one on Saturdays and one on Sundays?

    3) Dot, if you’d really like to play co-ed this year, you and Fei could take my captaining spot. My plans to get a co-captain are falling through, and I feel like I’m cheating the system by captaining co-ed without a female counterpart. Just promise me that you’ll a) wear a jersey with my face on it for every game, or b) wear my kilt for the tourney.

    4) In the distant future, after the combined Provinces of Northern America fight back against the zombie hoards using sharpened discs and laser-y flicks, a statue of Andy Bandit will be erected in the middle of Balboa Park, preferably depicting him icing AJ during a finals game at a tourney.

  3. Who is OddJob and can we be friends?

  4. So 100% 5v5 Beach League?

  5. Bryan, thanks for the offer! But I decided not to captain this year because I can’t go to the tournament.

  6. Mark, I feel like I should respond to your comment. The SF 100% draft thing wouldn’t knock you out of the league. It might be better because if you’re not drafted, you’d be playing in a less competitive division as a result. More about fun, less about measuring up.

    Just a thought. I think it’d be better to do it with Beach League than winter league since the teams are so entrenched in winter league anyway.

    I’d just like to report that I am the highest (self-)rated player in the men’s division, and I’d just like to thank my parents and my coaches. Dutchy, Mike Payne, you guys always believed in me. Mike Denardis, you told me I could do anything if I put my mind to it. Mr. Carnevale, you taught that you have to earn it in life. And due to a binding endorsement contract, I’d just like to say that Powerade is delicious, and it cools you off on a hot summer’s day, and we look forward to their release of the new flavor: Mystic Mountain Blueberry.

  7. @Chcuktown – you also get the reward for the most name-dropping on here thus far. Oh my god – you know Mike Denardis and Whit Clark? You are so cool. (Just messing with you dude. I think you’re cool regardless.)

  8. If men’s league is perceived as being the secondary option is there a way to add some more value to the league compared to Co-Ed?

    Some quick ideas are:
    1) Lower dues for open
    2) Introduce DOT’s “3 Points of Partying Plan” for that league only
    3) Hold the lottery earlier and start men’s league sooner so they have more games but still end at the same time?
    4) Free Mystic Mountain Blueberry on game night.

    When I played in the NY/CT area which is run by WUDi the best guys wanted to play in the open division, not mixed. The was supposed to be a vesting period of a year or two for new/unknown guys.

  9. Because if there’s any party I want to go to, it’s the all men’s league party.

  10. I think it’s worth mentioning, any of these ideas that people are excited about – be that another draft league or more summer league parties – You can create it and it will happen. Ideally, I imagine this being a discussion/suggestion rant page. But when it comes to implementation is up to us as individuals.

    If you want to organize a summer league kickoff or mid season party, that would be amazing! Start up another league, do it!

    It’s often discontent that spurs people into action. Just don’t expect your discontent to spur OTHERS into action for you.

  11. First of all, I love you Andy Bandit.

    Second of all, I don’t have a ton of opinions, but it seems to me (according to my own observations and not according to any scientific experiment or data collection) that women playing in co-ed leagues don’t get the disc very much. And I think that’s too bad. I’ve voiced my frustrations on this topic before, and I know there are a lot of reasons why this happens, but I just wanted to say it. And now that there is this forum, I’ve said it.


    Third of all, I love you Andy Bandit.

  12. I’ve also thought it would be neat if the leagues were split by geography. For example a north-western league and a south-eastern league. They would consolidate at the end for playoffs/tournament . I have a lot of friends from pick-up that would love to play in a league but can’t do the marathon commute to Balboa.

    Just a wish. Keep up the good work!

  13. We should mandate 4 passes before anyone can throw into the end zone, like in Hoosiers.

  14. Oooo, I have an even better idea for coed now: let the women draft the men they want on their team.

  15. Keith, your idea of the North/South league currently happens in our spring Goaltimate league with an East/West split. Mike Dow had also suggested a couple years ago doing an entirely geographic based tournament where the teams were all divided completely based on location. And I LOVE that idea, even though some geographic areas will get toasted in that tournament, but it’ll be fun to play alongside only the people who live closest to you. I vow to put together that tournament at some point in the near future.

    Chuck, you have no idea how many women have suggested to me that the women should get to select which guys make it into Co-ed.

    Foca, there’s some small subtle differences between Men’s and Co-ed already. In past years, Men’s had played one more game than Co-ed (not this year though, cause we’re over budget, and I couldn’t make it work), Men’s plays games to 17 whereas Co-ed is to 15. And Men’s has smaller rosters so more playing time for each guy.

    Also, I wanted to throw out some stats for you guys. About 1/4 of all guys who sign up request to play in Men’s. It’s not that everyone wants to be in Co-ed, so let’s dispel that myth.

    The rule where anyone who lost out in the Co-ed lottery two years in a row got automatic entry to Co-ed this year only affected 16 guys (and 3 of those guys never signed up, even though I emailed them all). I thought it would be a lot higher. I was kind of surprised about that.

    Also, we clearly need a Message Board. There’s so many topics on here, we should break it up by topic. I really love that you guys are writing so much. It’s awesome! I’ll talk to Allen and Bofa, who designed this site, about creating the Message Board.

    Broccoli, I love you too.

  16. If Chuck is the highest rated player in men’s, that must mean that Corey “Godfather of LA Ultimate” Sanford must either be in coed or not playing SL at all. After, this is the man who is a 10 in all categories.

    The geography may be an interesting idea, but I like how I’ve met people from all over, not just my general niche (Westside).

    I agree with Brocc. Although it’s been better than it was when it was 5/2, women don’t get thrown as much because guys are getting in the way or guys somehow have a brain fart when they see a woman open. I’m not sure if there is a fix especially since SL is a draft and you’re throwing a lot of players together who are unfamiliar with each other.

    Seriously, can we create a discussion board? Otherwise, this chain of comments is going to get very very long (TWSS).

  17. Corey IS in Co-ed. But he told me he’s so overjoyed with making it into Co-ed, that he decided not to put all 10’s this year.

    Now he’s only the 6th highest self-rated player.

  18. All this talk of women not being thrown to enough is kind of blowing my mind.

    I’ve been playing competitive organized sports since I was 8 years old from small fry baseball to high school basketball to college rugby and everything (including ultimate) in between. The one thing that that has been instilled in my from a very young age is to trust your teammates and on the court/field of play you treat them all the same.

    Specifically in basketball I’ve been taught, if I see someone wide open for a jumper/lay up I HAVE to give them the ball and trust them to make the shot. That’s something I’ve brought over to ultimate. I guess it’s just me, but I can’t imagine seeing someone open and not getting them the disc (unless of course it involves making a throw I don’t have) regardless of skill/gender. I’d be willing to bet the teams of these guys who look off open girls are generally unsuccessful.

    Is there a way to make this a poll Andy?

    I’m really curious to see how serious of a problem this is. Is it just a few apples spoiling it for the bunch, or are there A LOT of guys who aren’t passing it to open players.

    Maybe a women’s only poll regarding how often they’re looked off?

  19. On Kong, we don’t use our women very much, Stephen. We have good women too.

    Let’s call it Sadie-Hawkins Winter League next year and the girls pick the boys. Why is that not a good idea? What is particularly bad about the girls picking the boys? Anyone not picked gets to play in the men’s league anyway, so no one is left out, and the girls are DEFINITELY looked off regularly, so why not let them pick guys who can throw to women (i.e., me) to play in coed?

    I am turning into Corey Sanford.

    Also, Damien Scott, Beau Kittredge, Tyler Grant, Nick Handler….(@Remy)

  20. 1. everyone knows Jeff “I’ve played more ulty than anyone alive” Landesman is the true Godfather of LA Ultimate.

    2. I’m down to 6th because I sandbagged my rating. I’ve been in the draft, I know how it works. Sandbaggers always get on the best teams! Afterall, what 41 year old isn’t the 6th best player in their league?

    3. Chuck — turning, maybe, but you still have a long way to go, you lovable name-dropper, you.


  21. Having just spent too much time reading this entire board, and coming from a city with a HUGE ultimate community, I thought I should contribute somehow. Not sure if I’ll be helpful here, but I’ll give it a shot.

    For those who don’t know me, I’ve just moved to LA and come from Ottawa, Canada where we have a Summer League of around 5,000, with roughly 354 teams playing 5 nights/week. We’ve grown to a point where we have a board of directors, paid staff who run the league and we own our own fields. /bragging

    Through the league, 11 club teams are supported. The club teams are given a certain budget from the league in return for volunteer services. Things like being waterboys/girls at tournaments, score runners, cleanup duty. And running clinics. It’s that last thing that I think really helped grow the sport. Especially in the lead up to club tryouts and the beginning of summer league, the club players put together either free or low cost rules/skills clinics to encourage new players and give them a jumping-off point to start the season. Also a great way to see new talent that has just moved to town. Word of mouth has always been our strongest marketing tool, but in the last few years we’ve reached out to local news programs/networks to cover tournaments (even have televised and announced games!) We also involved many of the club players in a series of what we called “Ultimate 101” skills clinics. It was a 4-6 week series where for a 2-3 hour block you focussed on a given part of the game. I believe this was split into Very beginner and Intermediate beginner so that you could play and learn with others close to your level. The skills clinics were usually run in the winter season so as not to compete with the Club series. We also made a point of recruiting at the college/high-school level.

    All that said, I’m not sure how feasible some of those things are here, given geography, popularity of the sport and other challenges I’m sure I’m forgetting. It would also take a colossal amount of effort and a dedicated group of volunteers. I think we have the people, and I know that I would love to help and am definitely putting my hat into the ring of people wanting to grow this sport in LA.

    Also, though I’ve only met him a couple of times, I have to say that I too love Andy Bandit. Hearing all of the good things you’ve done for our sport in this city, and how much time you’ve taken to read and respond to all of the concerns and opinions voiced here is just further testament to your awesomeness. Thanks, Andy.

  22. The person with the disc always wants to throw it down field to make the long bomb score in the end zone. Most of the time, the person running in a man. Most of the time, there is at least one woman open for an easy 10 yard gain while the long bomb is questionable at best. And which throw is made every single time?

    I’m a guy, and I get frustrated when I’m looked off in favor of a long bomb, especially since it rarely connects.

    I have always said that the secret of a co-ed team winning or losing is how well they use or don’t use their women. If you ignore them, you are only using half your players. That’s just stupid.

    As stupid as at least half of the long bombs are.

  23. Wow, thanks for the rundown of Ottawa’s Ultimate community and how it’s run. That’s so great!

  24. This is great. I hope a lot of people are reading it.
    Few things I want to comment on, mostly about beach league.
    – if you suggestions about how to improve the beach league, please email me at LABeachUltimate@gmail.com that league is always evolving and suggestions are always welcome. I got a great one a few weeks ago.
    – I’m am planning on adding a men’s 5×5 division to the beach league this year (part of this depends on the city cooperating, but that’s the plan). There will still be a 4×4 co-ed division.
    – Beach league was created as a 4×4 league for a few reasons. The fields are smaller and we could fit in the space we currently play in. 4×4 is a BULA approved game. being 2M/2F makes it harder to play while looking off your women, although a few teams have played and won with 2M/1F on the field. And having the cross gender 2 pointers really made throwing to our women valuable.
    – yes, there’s plenty of beach, and we could move where we play, but it’s a nice location, close to the farmer’s market which a lot of people utilize and there’s free parking.
    – the fields were set up east/west so we could fit more of them next to each other in a closer space. yup, we get up wind/down wind points, but so goes the game of Ultimate.

    – Volunteers are always needed and appreciated and I’m in favor or rewarding them with free entry to leagues, first in line to food at a party, a reserved or free parking spot, or other freebies league are giving out.
    Sometimes, in the case of the youth leagues, I know a lot of people volunteer for free and that’s wonderful. But most people don’t step up to help out at leagues or tournies and you should know that we need your help on a regular basis. I think what they’re doing in Ottawa is great. I’m all for LAOUT donating financially to club teams to a certain extent if they are giving back to the Ultimate community. I will say that I don’t think they should get both money and free stuff from LAOUT for volunteering, but certainly one or the other.

  25. Goat, maybe Dot and I can combine and send you an email. I sort of like his thinking on Beach League. Thanks for all your service, bro.

    Also, just to clarify, I wasn’t making fun of the Ottawa League Post. (I realize I am sarcastic often, so I just thought I’d clarify.)

  26. I brought this up on the summer league comment page but thought I’d bring it up here. The lottery has been in place for about 4 years. If a man has played in men’s division for 2 or more years he now gets an auto-bid for coed the following year. My question is if a man has played coed for 2 or more years does that give him an auto-bid for men’s the following year to make room for those who are trying to get in? I’ve heard of lucky, but c’mon! I’d love the opportunity to play coed again.

  27. Randy, I don’t have any rules on players who play a certain number of years in Co-ed having to switch to Men’s. This gets into the whole issue that was brought up earlier in this thread about players that some people feel should always get into Co-ed automatically, and some players who should sometimes get into Co-ed automatically and I’d have to work all that into the equation.

    I’ll think more on it though. But I’m also trying to avoid creating this very complex matrix of rules that will just make a lot more work for me, or for the person that I put in charge of doing that.

  28. God this is great. Can we talk about how Brady V has not only NOT cast tangential conspiratorial aspersions down on us proletariat, but has made the most cogent comment of all?? I leave LA for one month and the cooky has become sane. Four passes before scoring a la Hoosiers. What a thought. Miss you LA.

  29. I want to rant about the results of that superhero poll. I’m pretty upset about it.

  30. Footblocks should be allowed in all leagues.

    Beach League should be 5v5 with north-south fields.

    Winter League should be draft-only.

    Professor X should’ve won the superhero poll.

    Rho has won 20 in a rho because he has played and coached in different divisions/games for several years and drafts good teams (as it should be).

    Bandit is a true champion.

    Benjamin Brin should get more recognition for all his work with the Youth Leagues.

    Mingo is my top male prospect in LA Ultimate.

  31. Yes.

    No and no.




    Good god YES!


    I wish I was still in the loop.

  32. Mingo gets my vote for most spirited college player and he is playing for Csulb this year again. Huzzah!

    He also gets a tie for best mustache. Who he tied with? Sean mcchuloh.

  33. I feel foot blocks should be allowed for winter and summer league and not beach because no one wants sand kicked in their face.

  34. Yeah, that’s fair. I think Mingo should be allowed to footblock on sand though. Not sure why.

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